98: Overcoming Orthorexia with Intuitive, Mindful Eating with Devyn Sisson 98: Overcoming Orthorexia with Intuitive, Mindful Eating with Devyn Sisson

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

Katie: This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic. If you follow me on Instagram, you’ve probably seen me mention them because I have been using and loving and Instagramming their products for years. They have an amazing instant mushroom coffee. Hear me out before you think it’s weird. I know, mushroom coffee doesn’t sound good. It’s not only the best instant coffee I’ve ever tried, it’s also pretty high up on the list of best coffee I’ve tried. It’s cheaper than coffee shop coffee and it’s so convenient because it’s so portable and it tastes so much better. But it isn’t just ordinary coffee. It has super food mushrooms like Lion’s Mane, Cordyceps, and Chaga mushrooms. And these mushrooms have some big health benefits, and especially immune benefits. I personally, especially love them for the energy and the mental clarity without the jitters from traditional coffee. And did I mention how good it tastes? So I always take these instant coffee packets with me when I travel, and I also always drink it at home these days now that they have a big tin that lasts about a month so I don’t have to open a little packet every day.

Some friends of ours recently traveled for three months carrying only the backpacks on their backs, and they brought an entire three months supply of this instant coffee in their bag that had limited space. In other words, this coffee beat out a pair of jeans for how important it was to make it in the bag. It’s that good. And, of course, if you aren’t a caffeine person, they also have a variety of mushroom tea and other products that don’t have the coffee so you can get the benefits without the caffeine. And I love them so much that I reached out and they agreed to give a discount to my listeners. So go to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and use the code “WELLNESSMAMA” to get 10% off. That’s Four Sigmatic, F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C.com/wellnessmama.

This episode is sponsored by Kettle and Fire Bone Broth. If you love the benefits of bone broth but don’t love the time it takes to make and how tough it can be to find quality bones to make broth, Kettle and Fire is for you. Their bone broth is a regular staple in my kitchen these days and it’s what I use to create the recipes in my new bone broth ebook. So they only use bones from 100% grass-fed pasture raised cattle that are never given hormones or antibiotics. Their broth is also unique because they focus on bones that are especially high in collagen, which is one of the healthiest things you can put in your body. You can find them at many Whole Foods on the west coast and you can also order online and get a discount at kettleandfire.com/mama. Again, that’s kettleandfire.com/mama.

Katie: Hello and welcome to the “Healthy Moms Podcast.” I am so excited to be here with today’s guest. Devyn Sisson is an author, and an artist, and a culinary enthusiast, and a cook, and also a restaurateur. She’s opening a restaurant in Malibu. The name is Primal Kitchen. And if you recognize the name, you may think of Mark Sisson of, “Mark’s Daily Apple” who is Devyn’s dad. But she is now launching a lot of things on her own. She has an amazing cookbook that I just got to read.

And she graduated from school in New York with a degree in psychology and then got into the study of nutrition with the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. And now, she combines both of those in helping people work through eating disorders and associations with food and also in her amazing recipes. It’s gonna be a fun conversation. So, Devyn, welcome and thanks for being here.

Devyn: Thank you so much. I’m really, really happy to be here.

Katie: It’s gonna be a fun conversation. And I was telling you right before we started recording that I’ve looked up to your dad for a long time and your family. I met your mom as well, and I’m sure I don’t have to tell you but they’re both wonderful people. So I’m excited to meet another member of the amazing family.

Devyn: Yeah, I have probably two of the coolest parents on earth and I have a great relationship with both of them, so I can only imagine how much you enjoyed them, and I certainly feel the same way. I hope I live up.

Katie: I think you definitely do, and it’s awesome. I feel like they totally walk the walk. In today’s world, not a lot of people do, and they absolutely do so. So I know their story, and just having met you, I’d love to hear yours. How did you get into the field of health and nutrition and cooking? I’m sure it was obviously a little bit front and center growing up. Your dad’s an amazing cook as well and has some amazing recipes, but how did you become involved in it?

Devyn: That’s a really great question. It’s definitely been in my family in the conversation and in our lifestyle for my entire life. But I wasn’t much into it in middle school and high school. And I think when I went away to college was sort of the first time that I had to grocery shop for myself and cook for myself or get to choose where I was gonna go out and how I was gonna exercise no longer being on the high school sports teams. And so that was a chance for me to…you know, I’d go to the grocery store and, like, why am I buying these foods? Is it because I wanna eat them or is it because that’s what’s been in my house my entire life?

So I started to ask myself those questions, which, you know, didn’t always go so well given that I started to create a lot of anxiety around food and eating and making sure I didn’t gain the freshman 15 in college. But that’s kind of what started me on this whole journey. And then dating, friendships, relationships, changing jobs, moving from New York to L.A., just being around different types of people, and within my relationship, just started randomly noticing how people eat, how it affects their bodies, their health, their well-being, and how it affects my relationships to them. So kind of…I know that’s general, but in a nutshell, that’s what got me interested in all this.

Katie: That makes sense. So I’m always curious and I’ll admit I’m gonna have some self-serving questions in this interview because I really am curious being a blogger as well and a little bit like your dad in some ways, I do worry that I don’t wanna put social pressures on my kids revolving food. I want them to have a healthy relationship with food. So I’m curious, growing up in an environment where you guys were very conscious about your food choices, what kind of an impact did that have on you and did you follow the primal lifestyle your whole life? Or, were there times when you were more of a rebel there? And, how did that work out for you emotionally?

Devyn: There’s actually a story in my book called the Healthy Food Rebel, and I think during high school, after getting my driver’s license, there was definitely a sense of I can eat this, I can try this, I can try…you know, I’d never gone to McDonald’s a day in my life. I had never really eaten fast food, I never drank soda, I didn’t have sweets. So there was definitely a part of me that was like, “Oh, I get to try these things,” and they didn’t seem to affect me negatively then, but obviously, what I understand about them now certainly does. But growing up in that house, it can’t help but not influence you.

Katie: Yeah, for sure. So, like, I would guess your parents didn’t ever consciously put any pressure specifically around food, but did you feel like there was just by the nature of that in some ways?

Devyn: No, you know what, never. Just, we ate what they cooked and we had a good time with it. But now, knowing what I know studying psychology, it’s more their behaviors that I witnessed, which ended up being a wonderful influence. You know, you eat your veggies, you don’t eat too much, you go to bed at a certain time, you take care of your body. But now, what I’m noticing is that how I followed their path for a couple of years in college, like, “Mommy and Daddy do this, they look great. I wanna look like them, therefore, I need to eat and live this way.”

And now, I’m sort of realizing that I can choose my own path, I can choose what I wanna eat and how I wanna live, and that they’re gonna love me no matter what. And the difference between me and my friends and my lifestyle and them is that I think I just like food more. I’m more invested in how something tastes and how something looks and I wanna try a new restaurant even if it’s a hole in the wall. And they’re definitely much more diligent about diet and exercise, and I’m sort of finding this middle ground between staying healthy, but also having fun and letting myself loose and relaxing and being 26.

Katie: Yeah, that’s a great point, and I definitely got that feel from reading your book, that you have a very intuitive relationship with it now. And that you also have a very kind of free spirit which is wonderful. If it’s not too personal to talk about, I love for you to go into your story with orthorexia a little bit. Because I feel like something is not talked about very much, but something that probably is a lot more common than people realize. So I’d love to hear your first-hand experience if it’s not too hard to share.

Devyn: No, not at all and I think as I was writing this book it was a source of anxiety for me to share those things, and the scariest part was that my parents were gonna read the book and find out that that was my experience. It’s not something that I shared with them openly and when I got into sort of studying nutrition a little bit more, the program I did sort of walked you through all of the different dietary theories and lifestyles and there was a period of time which ironically enough, in the program they sort of warn you about this. But, there would be an entire week on lectures about being vegan, and how it benefits your body and how it’s good for everyone. And then the next week would be paleo, and the next week would be vegetarian and arabatic.

There was probably a year or two there where I felt like anything I ate, I was gonna die. And though, I was eating very clean and eating well, the source of anxiety I had around all of the foods was detrimental to my health. And I lost a lot of weight, I messed up my hormones, thyroid, adrenal. It was just kind of a mess. And I realized now it was because I was just afraid of food and as I was afraid of food though, I was still eating, it wasn’t assisting my body in the digestion process. I was sort of in a fight or flight mode the entire time I would sit at lunch and eat a kale salad and worry about if I had one bite too many, or maybe I didn’t have enough. And was there too much dressing or not enough dressing and I just was afraid of… like I wasn’t even eating pepper for a while like salt and pepper, I wouldn’t even eat pepper. It made life difficult ordering at restaurants and being in a relationship and having friendships and just the enjoyment of food.

Katie: It’s funny because I hear elements of my own story in that as well, just how once you know so much about certain things… and I’m sure this is in psychology with your experience as well. But it’s so much harder to not over analyze and to actually just enjoy something. And you’re right because if you start researching, I’ve always said I could make a case for why broccoli is the healthiest thing in the world and the case for why with the oxalate and all the horrible things in it, you’re gonna get thyroid disease.

And at the end of the day, in most things are balanced, and I’m sure there are… like I would personally vilify a few ingredients like vegetable oil and refined sugars. But, outside of things that I would actually not consider those food, in the realm of food, I feel like balance is an important part of the approach. And I wonder if people have like heard a little bit of themselves in that story because it’s so easy to vilify all these different foods, and depending on which blogs you read and which studies you read, you really can feel like you can’t really eat anything because there’s something wrong with everything.

Devyn: Absolutely, and there was a part of the book where I just stopped writing for a long time and though I stopped writing, I still continued to have a conversation about it with people as if I was writing, because I was still excited about it. And in doing so, everyone I spoke to old, young, men, women, everyone has this weird relationship with food. And weird is an interesting word but we’re all on a spectrum and everyone has a different relationship with food. And it illuminates so much about their current state, their health, their spiritual life, their relationships.

And especially being a young girl in LA, there’s not a girlfriend I have where we converse about food in some way and that we share that anxiety, to some extent, around it. And it’s hard to not see in other people now. So, whether or not people are gonna put a label of orthorexia on it, it’s sort of up to them, but I’m really starting to understand now how many people share this experience with me on some level.

Katie: Yeah, for sure, and I guess in some ways, it’s an example of just how privileged all of us…especially if you’re listening to this and you have an iPhone or a computer, how privileged we all are because for most of history, people had to eat food strictly for nourishment and it didn’t matter if you loved it or not. Like, we actually have the ability to vilify foods or to, like, become addicted to certain foods. It’s a completely new time in history that I feel like we’re learning to have to navigate.

But I’m curious because you also have a background in psychology, so you have a really unique perspective on this, and I found that in the book as well. But I’d love to talk about the social relationship aspect and how social relationships, especially around food and regarding food, can hurt or help your health because I’ve written about not wanting to create positive associations with sweets in my kids. For instance, like every birthday, there’s a cake in a lot of families, I don’t want them to associate sugar with happiness. But also, like in your case, you can go the other way and become afraid of food. So, from your background in psychology and your personal experience, how do you feel like social relationships and those experiences can influence the way you interact with food?

Devyn: Well, I think historically speaking, families come together, communities, villages come together around food. It’s the concept of the kitchen table, you know. If you are busy all day in a family, the only time you get to really sit down and connect as a family, as a unit is around food. Think about any celebration we’ve ever done, whether it’s birthdays or really any holiday, it’s always around food. Everybody doesn’t come together and drink water. Everyone comes together and shares a specific type of food depending on what celebration we’re working with. So that’s definitely something I noticed and it was something I noticed in a lot of my sociology/anthropology classes.

And then kind of more specifically, I started to notice that my relationship with my parents was very different. Depending on how I felt about my body, it would be more difficult to eat lunch with my mom, say. And then think about every time you meet up with a friend, you might go on a hike, you might take a class, you might meet for lunch, you might go for a coffee, but it always involves some sort of nourishment in some way. And then I started to look at my romantic relationships, and the times I’ve felt more connected to somebody on a romantic level is a time that we can eat together, the time that we can cook together, the joy we have over experiencing a new restaurant and a great meal.

And with my female relationships, I started to notice that as I was eating with them, the healthier, more nourishing the relationship was, the conversation was, the better the food felt in my body. The less I ate, the slower I ate, and I did so with a smile on my face. And sort of my example is that one of my best friends in the whole world, we sit down and eat together and it really doesn’t matter what I’m eating. I could be eating fried chicken or, you know, an arugula salad and it still feels okay in my body no matter what because my conversation with her is with good intention, and it’s loving, and it’s calm, and we’re present. And that changes the way food feels in my body. You know, I’m not gonna go eat fried chicken every single day and hang out with her, but I relax so much more when I am around her and when I’m around people whose relationships are just loving and genuine and authentic.

Katie: That makes sense and especially just in light of the parasympathetic nervous system and how, just biologically, you digest better and you absorb your nutrients better when you are in a relaxed state. So, to that note, what are some of the ways that you would recommend that people kind of learn to do this, to relax around food and to learn to be more intuitively like that, and to really enjoy the experience of eating without all those emotions on either side of the spectrum?

Devyn: You know what, Katie, I’m still learning how to do that every single day. I think it comes with noticing when it is possible, noticing when you have done it, gaining strength from experience. And then the question is how do you have that experience? And the best way I’ve found to do that is to just not be in my head, to just not think about it, to just be present, and as cliché as it sounds, you know, just enjoy what’s in front of me. I don’t have to think about how this is gonna feel later and how I’m gonna feel tomorrow, or where this zucchini came from, and how ripe these bananas are and how they’re gonna digest. It’s really helped me to just let go of all the thoughts I have around it and really just enjoy my experience.

There was a time when I was encouraged to eat a meal alone, and I do that often. I don’t mind doing that at restaurants. And I certainly work from home right now and I cook at home so I do that. But I have the tendency to be on my phone or be watching something on my computer, having music on in the background. And at one time, it was distracting in my experience of food, make sure to chew, make sure to experience the flavor, make sure to swallow, make sure to light a candle, but I kinda threw that out the window, and it’s more fun for me to watch a funny television show when I’m by myself and I’m eating something. It’s more fun for me to put on great music in the background and, like, stand up and eat and get up and dance as I’m taking each bite.

But it was finding ways for me and people to eat with. That just felt better, and it was tuning into that experience after the fact. How do I feel right now? Probably not so good after I scarfed down my smoothie on the way to the gym in the car, but I felt great after ate X, Y and Z. with my best friend or after I went on this date, or after I cooked with somebody.

Katie: Yeah, definitely I think you’re right, there’s a very much personal aspect. And I’d love to also hear… because the majority of people listening as moms, we definitely are cognizant of wanting to raise our children with a healthy relationship with food. And so obviously, this is something all of us as adults are gonna have to figure out. But both from your experience growing up with the way your parents ate and also now as an adult, do you have any tips for parents on how to model a healthy relationship with food, or how to make that kind of a non-issue for their kids so hopefully our kids don’t have to go through these struggles?

Devyn: I often think about what this is gonna be like for me when I become a mother, and how can I save my children from the pain or discomfort that I experienced in my own head. And I don’t know how helpful this is but there’s not a lot you can do. Because my parents did everything perfectly. They never mentioned anything about food or my body or their body, and yet I still developed this interesting relationship which has allowed me to learn from and be able to share with other people. But they modeled everything perfectly, I would have done everything exactly the way they did it, which was sort of walking the walk as you said, which both my parents do.

But if I’m really to give you tips, get your kids in the kitchen, let them have their own experience of food. Get them knowing what they’re putting in their body. It’s much easier to get young kids to eat more vegetables when they can pick them from the garden or they grocery shop with you and pick out which bunch of broccoli they want or help you cutting things, stirring things. Getting them in touch with their food and what they’re eating just makes them more aware of it, and makes them able to make their own choices. And give them the power to do so. Obviously, offer the choices that you feel best and what works for your household and your budget, and what you perceive is healthiest for your child, but give them choices.

Allow them to build that strength and that confidence at a very, very, very young age in choosing what they wanna eat. Give them power, give them power with food, with their bodies, and in the kitchen.

Katie: Yeah, I think that’s a great tip and something you talk about in the book I’ve heard… you hear a lot about intuitive eating and that’s kind of a big thing. But you talk about a whole different take on it which is intuitive cooking, and you have a really cool approach with this and even with your recipes. So, can you talk about what you mean by intuitive cooking, and how this can help that relationship with food, and just relationship in general with that? Can you kind of delve into that?

Devyn: Absolutely. So it starts with just letting go of the idea that you have to make anything perfectly or do it right the first time. In fact, I encourage my readers to mess up, burn your salmon, overdress your salad, wilt your vegetables, mess up, that’s okay. But figure it out so that next time you can do it better.

The whole intuitive cooking really came with… I have no background in any professional cooking, I’ve worked in kitchens, but I have no formal culinary experience. I’m certainly have not trained in it, but it’s fun, it can be fun, it can be creative and without thinking about it… this is hard to do but without thinking about it too much, use your body to cook. Like just try things. I know this doesn’t sound like the newest idea ever but just try, just get in there, just mess up. Some of the most amazing things I’ve made were because I only had six ingredients in the fridge and decided to throw them together because they literally needed to just nourish my body.

So, you can stand there and meditate and you can tap into your inner resources and do that, but you can also just throw that out the window and try think things. Cut some things up, sauté some things, bake and roast and try new things. I frequent food web sites and food blogs just for ideas, but get messy in the kitchen. Start to notice what it feels like to drizzle the olive oil on your salad. Do you like butter, or do you prefer ghee, coconut oil, find out what you like, what the people around you like and what feels good in your body. And I know there’s a fine line between tuning in and thinking about it too much, but if you’re not thinking about it, then you are tuned in. You are tuned in to what’s best for your body. There’s no step by step, there’s no try this try that, it’s just try, it’s just do it, it’s just be. And look for the joy and the experience of cooking and eating and do it with other people.

Katie: Yeah, I think that’s a big key is getting your kids or whoever’s in your family whoever you’re cooking with, getting people involved that makes a big difference. And another thing you talk about and I’d love to give your take on is how to deal with picky eaters. I know some of the moms listening maybe have children or sometimes I hear from moms who have picky husbands. And it sounds like your family has kind of a variety of different food requirements with your dad being obviously the king of primal. And I believe he said your brother’s vegetarian. So how do you accommodate picky eating in different food needs while still keeping that kind of intuitive sense?

Devyn: I joke and my mom always asks me to cook for family dinners and small dinner parties and things like that. But, both my grandparents are vegan, my dad eats meat, my brother is a vegetarian. My boyfriend is pretty connected to the blood type diet, my cousins will eat anything but they don’t like a lot of vegetables. And I have my own pickiness as well, so sometimes I just wanna like set the table and be like, “You guys, we’re having water and air for dinner” because nobody eats anything of the same.

So, what I found with picky eaters… and my roommate is a picky eater so the list of things she eats is very small, the list of things that I eat is a little bit bigger. But the list of things we eat together is tiny. So it’s about taking the things that your family does enjoy. I mean, if you have to write it down and keep it on the fridge, that’s probably a good idea. But find all the things that they do enjoy and whether that’s healthy things or unhealthy things, find a way to make them in a way that satisfies those needs as well.

As I was writing the cookbook, I developed a lot of the recipes because I wanted waffles, I love waffles, I love pancakes, I love breakfast foods, I love desserts. I enjoy pasta but it was finding ways to make those healthy, finding ways to make those with ingredients that were safe and clean and organic, and finding ways to make them yummy. And sometimes I started asking myself questions like what is it that I like about macaroni and cheese? Or what is it that I like about pizza? And what I liked about pizza, I found a way to make that without the crust, without something that has processed ingredients in it. Finding ways to make the things you love in a healthy way. So use all the ingredients and the ideas that your kids enjoy. And find a way to make them with great ingredients.

Katie: Yeah, you definitely have some great recipes for that in your book. And of course, I’ll link that in the show notes. I’d like to take a little bit different of an angle too and get your take on how to help someone who has an eating disorder. Having been through it yourself and then and also now, with the psychology background that you have. Maybe people listening have a friend or even like a teenage child with an eating disorder. So, what advice do you give there? How can you help somebody who is in that part of their life and how can you reach out to them?

Devyn: First and foremost, is believing in their innate health and well being. Believing in their ability to move through this and believing that they can do it and communicating that to them even energetically. So, somebody is not gonna be able to heal something if you don’t even believe that they can do it. I know they’re probably having a hard time that they can do it as well, but first and foremost, is just seeing the innate health that is possible and that is available in them.

And at least with the example I gave in the book, my best friend Lolita was struggling with a number of different things, but I just modeled good behavior. We never really talked about it. I didn’t ask her questions, we didn’t talk a lot about food. It was just like I knew she was gonna be okay, I knew she was gonna be better. So I just allowed her to witness my experience of cooking and my relationship with food. We went to the grocery store together and I just got excited, “Look at how beautiful these vegetables are, look at how awesome that salmon looks, we could totally sear that later. Do you mind grabbing a bulb of garlic, and do you mind picking out a tomato that I think we can use?” And I just decided to be with her.

And I think this goes for anyone dealing with anything, whether it’s, you know, mental, emotional disorders, addiction, eating disorders, you name it, you have to first be able to see that they are capable of it themselves. You have to have confidence in their process and patience. Ultimately, we can’t do anything for anyone, we can’t make them think differently, we can’t change their mind about something or cure them. It’s really gonna be up to them to do it on their own, and all we can do in the meantime is just be loving and supportive wherever they are in their process.

Katie: Yeah, that’s good advice for a lot of areas of life.
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This episode is sponsored by Kettle and Fire Bone Broth. If you love the benefits of bone broth but don’t love the time it takes to make and how tough it can be to find quality bones to make broth, Kettle and Fire is for you. Their bone broth is a regular staple in my kitchen these days and it’s what I use to create the recipes in my new bone broth ebook. So they only use bones from 100% grass-fed pasture raised cattle that are never given hormones or antibiotics. Their broth is also unique because they focus on bones that are especially high in collagen, which is one of the healthiest things you can put in your body. You can find them at many Whole Foods on the west coast and you can also order online and get a discount at kettleandfire.com/mama. Again, that’s kettleandfire.com/mama.

Katie: And a couple other questions that I’d love to ask, just to get a guest take on it, are, what are three things that people don’t understand about your specific area of expertise, and then what would you tell them about those things?

Devyn: So, area of expertise, that’s a really interesting way to put it because I’m very much in this experience right now. And as much as I love talking about it, it’s something that I talked with myself about every single day. And these are also things that I’m learning to understand but I would sort of like everyone to know is that we’re all capable of accessing this intuition. We already have it inside of us and we’re all capable of cooking with intuition, living, being, breathing, eating with our intuition. It’s not something that we have to find or create or develop in some sense, it’s just sort of something we have to get in touch with and to access.

Another thing would be that I don’t think people understand just how much can be learned about us as humans through food and through diet, what our bodies look like, how our bodies function. I wish I could stand up in front of the entire world and say, “Food is medicine. Let’s just all get rid of everything pharmaceutical, and let’s just eat and live from this pure, wonderful, loving, happy place.” So I think people don’t know how much is available to them in the realm of food, how it has the capacity to make you feel better, to enjoy life in a different way, to shed light on things that might be issues and to bring light to things that might be celebrated.

And then I also think the third thing that people might not know is that we can’t do it wrong. You can’t do it wrong. Whatever you’re doing, wherever you are right now is okay. The desire to make improvements or changes or do experiments is awesome. And you might think you failed if you overcooked your steak or overdressed your salad, but ultimately, that’s just a learning opportunity. You didn’t do it wrong. There’s nothing wrong that we’re doing, only ways that we can again experiment, improve, and try anew.

Katie: Yeah, that’s a great piece of advice. And I’m also curious, if you were going to give a TED Talk, what would it be on?

Devyn: That’s kind of a scary thought because I love watching TED Talks and I would love to do a TED Talk one day. The title would be “Cooking as a Metaphor for Life.” And I would discuss, like I said earlier, all the things that you can learn about yourself from your relationship to food and with food and how much joy and comfort and vibrancy, vitality, energy that food can bring you. And in it, I would also discuss, you know, how it’s possibly negative-affecting a lot of things and a lot of people and a lot of…just things that are going on in the world right now. I love that question.

Katie: I hope you get to give that talk one day. It sounds like it would be a great TED Talk. I also would love for you to tell people…you have a new book called “Kitchen Intuition,” but where can people find you, can find your book, and also talk about the new restaurant that you’re opening.

Devyn: Yes, so my book can be found on Amazon. And I would love for people to come follow me on Instagram, its @kitchenintuition. And I would also love people to come check out the information available on the restaurant I’m opening. So the restaurant is actually going to be in Culver City, I’m doing it with my brother. And it’s a paleo upscale fast casual experience. It’s entirely organic, locally sourced whenever possible. And we’ll be serving breakfast, lunch and dinner, gluten free beer, paleo wine, bone broth, kombucha on tap, coffee, and the most incredible selection of just interesting foods. Everything you’ve ever wanted to eat is on this menu, but it’s done so with organic good quality nutrient-dense ingredients.

Katie: That’s awesome, and you’re opening this summer some time, right, it’s pretty soon?

Devyn: Yeah, we’re getting so close, it’s been such a wonderful process, and ironically, I really enjoy working with my brother. But we’re about halfway through construction right now, so I’m getting to walk through the space and see where the booths are and where you order, and where the freezers are gonna go. And I know those things sound really silly, but it’s cool that it starting to come to life. We have an awesome team of people working for us, with us, along side of us, an incredible chef.

I’ll also be in the kitchen from time to time which I’m really looking forward to. But we’re looking at end of summer and would love for everybody to come out, meet the family, my brother and I, and we’ll also be selling my book at the restaurant.

Katie: Awesome, I wish we were closer because it sounds amazing. If we’re ever out in California, I’ll have to come check it out. Sounds delicious and I think eventually there will be more as well, hopefully, in other parts of the country right?

Devyn: Right, South Bend Indiana is opening this month, they’ll be the first ones open. And then, later on, this year, we’ll have Anchorage, Alaska, Oregon, and Northern California opening up.

Katie: Very awesome well good luck with all of that, it sounds delicious. And I’ll have links in the show notes like I said to your book and to your website, but also, to the restaurant in case anybody is close by and wants to find it when it opens. Thanks so much for your time being here. This has been a really fun interview, and I think really insightful, and hopefully, has maybe spoken to a lot of people on a level where they needed to hear. Especially people struggling with their relationship with food. So, thank you so much for your time.

Devyn: Thank you, so much for having me I really enjoyed talking to you and I look forward to seeing your face at the restaurant because you best bet you’ll be getting an invite to the opening.

Katie: Thank you, that’s awesome. And thanks to all of you for listening and I’ll see you next time on “The Healthy Moms Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

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