153: How Bioenergetics is Changing the Future of Health – With NES Health Founder Harry Massey 153: How Bioenergetics is Changing the Future of Health – With NES Health Founder Harry Massey

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Katie: Hello and Welcome to the Healthy Moms Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and today this podcast is going to talk about an entire new level of health that many of us are not familiar with. Because I am here with Harry Massey who is the co-founder of NES Health, which is a company focused on advancing health care using an integration of physics and biology. After years of research, Harry invented the BioEnegetix wellNES System which is able to read and correct the energy of the human body field. This has helped millions of people improve their health. But in short, he’s developed a device and a system to measure and improve the electrical energy of the human body, moving it toward the metrics associated with health and moving it away from the electrical chaos associated with disease. His network of practitioners known as NES Practitioners helped thousands around the world. And we’re going to delve into the technology and also into his personal story and how he eventually discovered this system after being bedridden for seven years in his 20’s. So, I can’t wait to jump in.
Harry, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Harry: It’s great to be here. Thank you, Katie.

Katie: I’m super excited about this. I’ve actually been learning this for the last few todays, and I don’t feel like I fully completely understand it yet. So I think this is gonna be really enlightening. But to start off, can you kind of give your backstory? So how did you get into this field to begin with? Because I know enough of your story to know it’s a little bit like mine, that you didn’t get into this because you had perfect health but that you have kind of a journey there. So can you tell us your journey?

Harry: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m 42 now, and when I was 21, I ended up getting chronic fatigue syndrome in a pretty severe state, like I was one of those bedridden cases for like six whole years and a number of years up, and it basically took me a number of years to sort get back out of it. But, yeah, if I go back to the beginning of that, when I was 21, I was basically this avid sort of quite hedonistic rock climber. I was at university and I travelled out to the Alps. I was doing a bunch of climbing. And when I was climbing up the mountain I started to get a fever and then I when I came back down I basically sort of had a huge fever for the next couple of weeks. And then I recovered a bit, went back to Uni and then I just felt off and I was just increasingly tired. And, yeah, I guess looking back now I had some sort of post viral fatigue, but because I was 21, very sort of strong willed, I was liked, “Well, I’ll just exercise my way out of this” and like I would carry on climbing and a lot of other stuff.

And over that year, actually unusual for me, but I basically started falling off various mountains and cliffs and actually, so even a subsidiary story, but I fell off Ben Nevis which is Britain’s highest mountain. Like I hit the snow slopes below and ended up with quite a lot of back pain in the whole time I was ill. But it wasn’t till years later that I discovered I actually fractured my spine in that accident. And basically, yeah, over the next year I was basically deteriorating and deteriorating until it got to a point where I couldn’t get out of bed. And being a bit of an idiot like because I still didn’t wanna give up, I enrolled back at university to do an MBA. Because I was too sick to attend the lectures, I was split over a couple of years and I basically did all of my exams in a wheelchair. And I’m not sure why actually. And then really after that, I basically began the sort of really heavy, heavy six years of being completely bedbound with chronic fatigue where you’re basically just in a bed just sort staring off at the ceiling where you can move a bit where you could go after the toilet or try and get up. But, yeah, you’re basically too exhausted to do anything.

Katie: Wow, I can’t even imagine. So obviously you totally recovered from that now. You’re very active. And so I know there’s more to the story we’re gonna work in, but can we start at the basics and kind of build an understanding from the ground up what it was that worked kind of for you for healing? And I know this is a confusing topic for a lot of people, including me, like bioenergetics and energy medicine. So can you kind of start at the beginning and explain at that? Because, for me, my experience with was I was introduced to you through our mutual friend, Ben Greenfield when my daughter was having an outer-ear infection when we were at an event. And he’s like, “You gotta go see this guy, Harry.” And I was trying to get information from him about how it worked and I don’t even think he fully like grasped the technology, but he’s just like, “Go see and see him.” And you did the scan on my daughter, and you could tell me what was wrong. You were able to identify the symptoms that she had been having, which blew me away.

And she had digestive stuff at the same time, yeah. And I think you ran something to do with like improving sleep. And I was like really doubtful because I was like, “She’s has not really slept in four days. Like I’m about to lose my mind here. She’s not sleeping.” And on the way back to our room, she fell asleep. And so that’s when I was like, “Okay, I need to understand this because this is…something is to this.” So I’d love for you to kind of start there and weave in how you found your own recovery.

Harry: Sure. So I did I guess the conventional thing for a few years and, I guess, went to conventional doctors for a couple years, didn’t really get a diagnostic or, you know, like I wasn’t able to work out what was wrong with us. Then we went down I guess probably the pathway a lot of us go down into nutrition and functional medicine and sort of then you kind of sort of followed down into like homeophone mind-body type stuff. And none of it unfortunately was working. I’m looking back now here because I was under so much stress like living at home, you know, back under my parents which wasn’t the best place to be in your early 20s. But I ended up sort of going down this line and started reading books on energy medicine and subtle energy, which didn’t, to be honest, a bit like yourself, it didn’t make a lot of sense, but I did have a sense that there was something to it. And I thought, you know, being a pretty inquisitive type of person I thought, “Well, you know, I wanna get to the bottom of it just to see if there’s anything there or not.”

So I just started researching a little bit online. Like I don’t think Google was barely around. It was Yahoo in those days. But I was doing a bit of research and I came across this scientist called Peter Fraser from Australia who…he was the first person to set up an acupuncture college in Australia that became part of Melbourne University. And so he’s really one of the pioneers of like going into China and sort of understanding the Chinese ideas and, yeah, basically putting into English and then that, of course, got licensed across a number of acupuncture colleges in the States as well. So he’s sort of a pioneer into two worlds actually. A pioneer in acupuncture back 45 years ago, and in bioenergetics, like 15 years ago. So, I wrote to this scientist called Peter and he just wrote back one line. He said, “Well, I don’t why I’m sending you this.” And he sent me over a paper on content biology, which I didn’t understand and I just sort of put it off to the side.

But over that next year, because I was still really, really sick and I was just thinking to myself, “Well, basically…” I was very reliant on my parents and they were having to drive me to different practitioners. But I could probably… and you’re getting to do that every couple of months. So it wasn’t really the way to get better and it was super expensive. I mean, we didn’t have a lot of money and it wasn’t my money, it was my parents’ money, which isn’t so easy. And so I was just thinking in my head, “Wouldn’t be amazing if you could create some sort of system that would work out or basically get to the root cause of what was wrong with people from the comfort of their home and then more importantly sort of give them a guideline of how to get better again?” So it was really just that thought that sort of basically spurred the whole thing.

And then I sort of connected it back to Peter. And I thought, “Well, yeah, maybe there is something in this content biology energy medicine space that could help.” And so I rang Peter up and, fortunately, he liked the idea of it and so he was in Australia, I was in England. We both sort of mutually…like we basically met halfway and agreed to meet in Los Angeles. So both of us were to sort of fried, or whatever the word, was to fly right across the world and I hadn’t been on a plane in like six, seven years. And I can’t tell you. It’s just a massive, massive ordeal to do that because I was just basically stuck at home, but we did, we met up in L.A. And he basically started treating us with what we now call, well, we call them now infoceuticals. But he was basically making…like giving us these liquid remedies which he had imprinted with information. And the first one he gave me was an antidote to a bunch of flabby viruses.

And so I got this immune reaction where I just got this fever that lasted about two to three days and then it went away. It’s not like I wasn’t healed or anything like that, but because I had this reaction, you now, I knew that there was something in it, a bit like what happened to your baby. So I was like, “Well, okay. I mean, let’s see where this goes.” And then we basically formed this like beautiful 10-year research relationship. And long story short, yeah, we basically ended up mapping out the energy and information beyond the Chinese acupuncture system of the human body. And I guess that was really his sort of contribution, was mapping out the body field. And our contribution was systemizing that to invent this what we now call the bioenergetic wellness system which is a system that can scan you, get to the root cause of your health issues, and then it recommends these infoceuticals which help to trigger off a response.

Katie: That’s so fascinating. And I would myself a skeptic by nature. So like it took me a lot of research to start to understand how this can actually work because like I think for a lot of us, especially those of us with a clinical background, we tend to think in like numbers and blood test and like seeing parts of the patients. Although we try to be much more holistic than a lot of conventional medicine, we still are kind of thinking of the body in silos. And after my daughter, after you scanned her, I ended up getting scanned the next day, and was shocked because it pulled up all the things that blood test and genetic testing and everything else that already knew, but the first of scanning we didn’t know that. And I’m like, “It pulled thyroid?” And we were in events so I’ve been drinking wine at night and my liver was like showing like all this…you knew I had had a C-Section based on like blockage there. And I was like, “What is going on?” So basically, if I’m understanding it, it’s based on the premise of the human body field which I think I would love a little more explanation on. What exactly is that? Is it measurable? What’s the metrics? Is it electromagnetic? Or basically just delve into that a little more.

Harry: Okay. So I’ll just start with a couple of definitions. So bioenergetics is basically the study, detection, and correction of energy in living systems. So, yeah, we’re basically just purely looking at the energy fields in your body. And then the second thing, I guess, we should mention is there’s really like three main fields in science, you know, if we’re going to university we’d study physics, chemistry or biology and they all sit on top of the other. Unfortunately, none of those departments ever really speak to each other. But fundamentally, the whole of reality really comes from the laws of physics and also, if you like, like life is basically just purely an energy exchange system and sort of, I guess, to get that, like if we go back to Einstein, his main…one of the equation he’s most famous for was E=MC2 which is basically just saying that energy is equivalent to matter.

And then one of his other quite famous quotes is that the field is the sole governing force of the particle. And what he meant by that is for a particle or any of like matter or reality to exist is it basically has to be governed by a field and it’s really the field that is more important than any matter. And if you take it a step further, there isn’t really any matter there at all, it’s just energy. And if you apply that to biology, you can basically say, “Well, you know, the field is the sole governing force of life.” So it’s really the fields in you that are actually controlling all of your physical matter. It definitely sounds a bit deep and we don’t necessarily experience or see it so easily in our day-to-day lives, but there’s a few ways that I guess can help us sort of bridge to that point. And it’s actually all there in conventional medicine.

So, you know, it’s like we’re all fairly used to the idea, you know, ECGs on your brain and pickup brainwaves. You can put an EKG over your chest and you can pick up heart rhythms. Like, you know, those two are all examples of being able to read fields and get some sort of diagnostic out of it. And then I guess there’s the really more advanced one which is an MRI which stands for Magnetic Resonance Imaging. And, you know how that works, it’s basically, well, resonating a magnet where you go into a huge tube and it’s basically resonating huge magnetic field and you’re basically looking at how the hydrogen and oxygen molecules sort of resonate under those magnetics fields. And they’re basically all examples of being able to pick up a field. And the bit of the medicine sort of left off is they just see it in these sort of isolated diagnostic type ways. They don’t see that the field is doing anything else.

But, you know, like with causation, if something is indicating something, well, it’s also actually doing the opposite. Like it also has a controlling factor back on the body, and so by definition, well, maybe not by definition, if you correct the field, you’re also basically correcting the physical functioning that that field is governing. So it’s basically looking at things like 180 degrees the other way. Like medicine, we’ll just see, “Well, the body is creating a field and that might mean something diagnostically.” And what we’re saying is, “Well, that’s true but it’s all also true that if you correct the field, you can have an influence and correct physiology.”

Katie: Interesting. So basically, all of these things, the biological, the chemical, those would have impact as well on the body field. But you’re saying you can also start from the reverse. And if you address the field itself, it can also then fix like biochemical problems in the body?

Harry: Yeah, absolutely. The body and healing is completely holographic. And like, for example, like in reflexology, why does the foot reflect on health conditions? And that if you stimulate certain points on the feet or if you stimulate certain acupuncture points perhaps in your ear, like why if you stimulate some point in your ear, can it help your heart? Like it doesn’t seem very logical. But, you know the truth of our biology and health is basically absolutely everything is interconnected and, yeah, absolutely like biochemistry affects the bioenergetics and bioenergetics in the fields affect biochemistry.

Katie: That’s fascinating. So from my own sake of understanding, like where do the energy, the fields come from? Because I know enough like background of biology to know obviously the heart is a very electric organ, ourselves have an electrical component like the mitochondria functions in that way. But like what actually…where do the fields come from themselves?

Harry: It’s multilayered. So at that level, well, we’ll just look at the organs first, they’re probably the easiest to understand. So, yeah, the heart is always generating really strong magnetic fields and you can take that upward of magnetic realm like 15 feet out from the body. Like the nervous system is generating out alpha and delta waves. But, yeah, if you’re sort looking from a cell point of view, I guess it’s really, really interesting. So if we look at a cell, on the inside of a cell membrane, you basically have a layer of structured water and this is slightly complicated concept. But basically, water, whenever it’s next to a hydrophilic surface, of which it is inside the cell, has a different structure which is H3O2. And that structured water has a few curious properties.

And one of those properties is that it’s able to convert light, or if you like, heat, into electrons. And you can actually see that like every day like when you’re walking outside actually we can see all the grass and all of these plants outside. And the reason photosynthesis is working is because inside the leaf of a plant is basically able to convert heat and a photon into source of energy. And then the plant basically grows like with that source of energy. And we don’t really think of ourselves as doing photosynthesis, but we absolutely do not quite at the same level as a plant or a tree, but it’s absolutely is a source of energy. So we’re constantly absorbing heat and light from our environment as it hits the water in our cells is building up a charge, that charge is building up on the cell membrane. If you look at a cell, so the cell membrane is able to act like a battery and that battery is basically able to both store and transmit a charge. And so then if you’re looking at a particular organ, so if you look at, let’s say, you liver or your pancreas, so it’s full of billions and billions of cells with these charges. And then we wanted to pick up the field on the outside, now, I haven’t got one in here, but if we had one my health devices, and I haven’t even showed you this, but you can basically put the device directly on different organs and parts of the body and you can see the charge through and basically it’s emanating through the skin, which is also both another way of sort of doing an analysis to the body. But really interestingly enough, the areas that are missing enough charge, you can basically use a mode where you’re putting energy back into that part of the body so you can build up the charge of that organ. And then pretty miraculous things happen as you build up the energy of a particular organ.

Katie: Yeah. That makes sense. So to relate it back to like my background in nutrition, for instance, I would guess that like certain nutrients and things of the body do that as well. They help like build up the charge of the body by like supporting it in different ways or sleep, for instance. Is that like regenerate the body and help it do that? Because, obviously, like, this is like a whole comprehensive look at the body there, all kinds of factors on a daily basis that are contributing to this, right? Am I kind of starting to get the grasp of it?

Harry: Yeah, yeah. Well, sleep is a really interesting one. It’s just triggered off a thought in my head. But when you’re looking at what health is, you know, from a bioenergetics point of view, we’re basically looking at the efficiency of energy or energy fields in the body. And, you know, if you’re able to transmit energy and information around your body in a really efficient way, your own body’s healing system will always work. And, you know, if you get ill or have some little shock that comes in, your body has enough energy and enough efficiency to respond to that. And, you know, you probably only had a little acute issue for a few days and it goes away. But unfortunately, in more chronic diseases is that body field, that energy system can get so distorted, it’s basically not able to resolve any of these traumas or conflict.

And so, yeah, if you’re talking about something like sleep, sleep is one of those great ways that the body basically resets, reorganizes itself into a more efficient energy pattern to enable you to heal. Because, as you know, if you don’t sleep enough for weeks or months on end, you can get really, really sick. And sleep is one of those sort of cool things you have to look after. And as we were both talking about fasting the other day, and fasting is another thing like that because when you’re in a fasted state, the body is gonna eat up all of those proteins or scar tissues, etc., that’s distorting your body field. It’s distorting the efficiency of your body. But, yeah, when it gobbles it all up, the body becomes super-efficient again. Yeah, and you’ve seen that you get this massive increase of energy and performance.

Katie: Yeah. That’s so fascinating. And I have a note about if you could go a little deeper in explaining like what is cellular energy exchange? Because a lot of people…let me just start with that. Like how do our cells actually communicate with each other? Because that was part really helpful to my understanding of it.

Harry: Sure. Yes. So we’re probably all used to this idea that cells communicate through biochemistry and that’s absolutely true. Like when you’re looking at a cell on the cell membrane, they basically have little protein receptors. And these protein receptors, you know, picking up biochemical messages and then they do whatever the cells are meant to do from those messages. But the problem with that is it’s not very efficient. So, well, for instance, yeah, if we…I think because you were mentioning about thyroids.

So, you know, that mechanism, well, that’s basically reliant on your thyroid producing thyroxine and then travels to liver pathway and then converts the T4 to T3 which is the active form and the T3 is meant to travel to all those cells. Like if you suddenly wanted energy quickly, that seems an awfully inefficient slow way for it to happen. Yet when you’re in a crisis, somehow magically, you know, you’re able to get the energy you need and everything is coordinated at absolutely instantaneously. Or for another example, like if we’re looking at the…even a nervous system is an odd one. Like your spinal cord is really thick, but if you look at the other nerves in your body or down to like the nerve in your little finger, it’s really, really thin, and the nervous system basically travels or signals travel at completely different speeds down all of your nervous system.

And if you look at the maps of it, it can’t even explain walking or movement, let alone like really complicated ballet that’s 100% in tune to the music or even something like that. And so when you’re looking at those sort of things, you’re like, “Well, how on earth is the body coordinating things? Because the normal nervous system and biochemical aren’t quite adding up.” As it turns out, basically, cell membranes, they also have other proteins receptors that are basically tuned to fields. And what’s great about fields is their orders of magnitude are pretty much infinitely more efficient than a biochemical in a biochemical system. And therefore if we’re trying to explain how movement, how metabolism, and growth are all coordinated, basically a field-based system is a way, way better explanation. But, again, it isn’t saying that biochemical pathways don’t exist because they do. It’s just saying in a lot cases the more efficient pathway is a field-based type system and, of course, like nature, it always, always prefers the most efficient way of doing things, and therefore generally works.

Katie: That’s so fascinating. So back to your story for a minute. So you basically, you guys figured out a way to map and measure this body field basically, and that was instrumental like to your recovery, because you’re obviously not bedridden anymore. So how did that happen?

Harry: So I met Peter in Los Angeles. He’d made that first infoceutical where I got a reaction. And basically then I said to Peter, I said, “Well, what on earth is driving this energy?” So he basically told me those energy field exist. And I was like, “Well, what on earth is driving it?” And then he said, “Well, the heart.” And then I was like, “Well, you know, are there are other organs?” And then, since we’ve mentioned the nervous system and lungs, and then over the next year or so, we basically built out what we now call the energetic drivers. It was basically looking at all the different organs and how those organs were able to generate a field. And then in doing that, we also recorded the information of how all these healthy organ drivers were working. And then when you print that information into a liquid and I was basically taking what we now call infoceuticals, I was basically getting this incredible healing reactions. And, yeah, so basically, all my different organs would improve in their health. Over about a year or two, and instead of this like extremely tired and wide-eyed type state I’ve been in for years, like working and gradually started to ease off.

Katie: Wow, that is super fascinating. So now you are in this field which is call bioenergetics. So can you kind of define that field and what we’ve touched on it, but just kind of give it a more thorough definition so we can build on it?

Harry: Sure. So, yeah. I mean, bioenergetics is the study, detection, and correction of energy in living systems. Yeah, and in short what we’re trying to do is completely understand how energy fields work in the body, but really, really what matters is trying to help people get to the root cause of what’s going on in their body, and even more importantly, how we can restore their energy for life. So everything we do in this, like all of our research and all of our products is just literally with that objective. I mean, we sort of throw our life and soul for 14 years and continue to do to basically, you know, improve that system so that we can basically have a system that can help anyone really anywhere know what’s going on in their body and help them on their health journey.

Katie: So what about the mind-body connection? Because I know this is something that’s got a lot of research time lately and there’s been some interesting studies that have come out. And it’s always fascinated me but I’ve never fully understood it. But I know we all hear those stories of someone who, for instance, find that they’re dying of cancer and then makes all these life changes and completely changes their mindset and everything, and then somehow a year later they’re totally fine and in remission. Or you also conversely, you see people who kinda spiral into like a depression or something like that and end up seeing same physical problems as well. So is there, in the field of bioenergetics, like a measurable way that like emotions come into play with the body field or anything like that?

Harry: Absolutely. And really at the core of it is this concept of what I would call emotional immunity.

And the real truth of it is all of us have our own innate healing system. Now, you know, some people call that the placebo effect or you might it a spontaneous remission or, in healthy people, yeah, we just get an acute cold and a week later it’s gone and it doesn’t end up with some chronic disease. And basically the body is always, always trying to repair itself, trying to heal itself.

But sometimes, you know, especially in the case of people who have got chronic disease, have been ill for many, many years, it’s basically your control systems got so distorted, the immune system isn’t able to turn on properly or is basically not able to activate itself to heal what’s going on. And one of the reasons that happens is basically due to emotional trauma and shock. So one of the fascinating pieces of research that has recently come to light is the study that was looking at adverse child events, which is basically trauma in people’s early lives and the correlation to all of these different types of diseases.

And basically, what they found is people who had a lot of trauma in their early lives would end up like 10, 20, 30 times more likely to get all of these different diseases. And, you know, why on earth might that be true? Because, you know, I guess we’re very, very used to the natural health flow of thinking, it’s like diet or toxins. You know, while that might be true to a point, it absolutely isn’t the only cause of why people get diseases. And there’s some other really interesting research and this is someone who got completely vilified for this research. But he basically did 10,000 CT scans of the brain. Within the brain he basically noticed these rings in the brain. Now these rings happen to basically be calcified tissue inside the brain and he also correlated those. I mean, this is cancer research, but he basically correlated those to different tumors that are in different parts of the body.

And then he correlated those again where he basically took a questionnaire of everything that had happened to their lives. And he basically identified these shock conflicts to these different regions in the brain and to these different tumors that are in different parts of the body. And really the outcome of all of those scans is basically a very, very strong link between emotional trauma and disease. And really the next question from that is, you know, “Why on earth does trauma end up creating all of this disease?” And this is something that Peter, who is our cofounder scientist, was really, really interested in trying to work out. And I know in all of our bioenergetics experiment, he basically found, like when we were looking at emotions, emotions are basically, if you like, they’re like a sphere of energy in different regions of the brain. And this isn’t a new idea.

Like if you look at Ayurvedic medicine you have the chakra systems. So you have these, what you’re basically seeing is spheres of information up and down the spine. The Chinese also have these concepts of emotional orbs in the body. And when Peter was basically doing his experiments, he found that there were different emotional spheres within the brain and this also matched to the German Hammer calcium rings that were in the brain. And then basically what he found is where you’ve got a trauma you would get a very, very focused energy within those spheres, which over time would basically damage the neural tissue in those parts of the brain. And obviously, that would setup the issues in the brain. Basically, in this research we found that there four main regions of the brain that all corresponded to the fetal development. Now when a fetus is developing, you basically get this layer that’s called the ectoderm and then you get to mesoderm layers and then you get an endoderm layer. Now each of those layers, like the first layer has like the heart and some of the digestive system. And then the mesoderm gets some of the other organs like the pancreas and kidneys. And then the ectoderm is basically the skin layer.

Now those four layers are also reflected in the brain, starting from the brainstem which is right in the middle, and then going to the outside which is cerebellum, and obviously both in Hammer’s research and Peter’s research, they’re basically linked, all of these emotions and trauma to the fetal development. And therefore, to all of these different, sort of the disease tissues that would happen over time. But what’s really, really fascinating is if you’re able to calm down those emotional oscillations that are going on in the brain. So it can be basically damp it down so they stop damaging the neural tissue and therefore all these relay points in other parts of the body, you can also help the body’s own healing system to activate itself and, you know, pretty miraculous things can happen. And there’s a number of ways you can do that. I mean, probably all of us have heard about the benefits of meditation and staying calm and, you know, taking yourself out of stress. But it isn’t just external stress that does it because, you know, once you have these emotions also you’re just going on inside your brain, you’re basically creating your own internal stress.

So it’s really, really important to basically like calm that down so it’s not damaging both your brain but also relaying to other parts of your body. And that’s where things like bioenergetics or infoceuticals can help because it can basically help to calm down those emotions, bring them back into balance. And it’s not the infoceuticals or bioenergetics per se that’s helping people get better, it’s their own body’s, like natural innate healing system, it’s basically reactivating and getting better, which is why we call the concept of emotional immunity, because if you can correct the emotions, you’re basically able to turn the immune system back on and the immune system will do the rest. So, yeah, I think the emotional side is like heavily overlooked and we can get so obsessed with, you know, diet detox and nutrition which, you know, don’t get me wrong, I do it all myself but, yeah, the deeper work is in the emotions for sure.

Katie: Yeah. And I think those are sometimes the hardest ones to actually conquer. But it makes sense, and you’re right. The research is really solid on…like long-term meditation is being used to like alter mortality. And like they’ve done some solid research on that and meditation routinely shows that correlation. And the converse is true. We know that stress or lack of community or things that are perceived as bodily stresses increase your likelihood of dying. So it makes sense that it’s kind of…I guess I think of it now as like a way to sort of measure that actually happening. But it makes me curious. So we’re talking about the body being this like, forces of energy and basically electromagnetism. So I wonder…I’ve done research in areas like EMFs and radio waves and WI-FI and all these electrical signals we have kind of bombarding us all the time that we didn’t used to have. So I’m curious like how do those come into play? Do they affect the body field in any way? Or like how can they impact us, electromagnetically, I guess?

Harry: I’m gonna give you probably an answer you’re not expecting. They affect you to the level you think they’re gonna affect you. So if you have a weak body field and you’re basically under par, then EMF and all these different forms like those WI-FI or cellphones, they’re all gonna affect you generally in a greater way. But the thing that makes the most, most difference is basically your intention and what your cells are tuning into. So if we go back to that idea of cellular communication and on the cell membrane, you have these little protein receptors. Now those protein receptors tune into field messages. But the thing that controls what they tune into is basically your thought, is your own brain.

So the more power and intention we give that, basically, unfortunately, the stronger the effect it can have. And I definitely know this from, I guess, a bitter experience. Like, you know, when I was ill and even after I was ill, I basically just couldn’t hold a cell phone. You know, I’d have to hold the cell phone way out here and I would just have this instant…I don’t know how to describe it, but it is like this weird sort of tingling headache-y feeling in my brain and I absolutely couldn’t hold the phone anywhere near me. But basically, as I learned over time, that it didn’t have to, you know, affect me and I basically just stopped tuning into it and just tuned into…well, I was just tuning into work and other stuff. You know, over time I was like, “Oh, it’s not affecting me anymore.”

And so, yeah. I guess my advice for that would be like from what I do personally is like, you know, I make sure our house isn’t overly bombarded with WI-FI, you know, where we can. Like I’ll protect oursevles. But I don’t overly think about it because, you know, fortunately we have to travel for business and all these types of things and stay in hotels and go in airports and, yeah, I’m not going to sort of sacrifice like the pleasure and also the mission because of like WI-FI being in the hotels. So yeah, I would say you can do stuff at home, but like when you’re out and about, I wouldn’t think about it because the thinking about it is worse for you than the total avoidance, I guess.

Katie: That makes sense. And back to the stress idea. Stress is something negative on the body.

Harry: Yeah. You’re just adding to the stress. Your own thought is adding to the negative ways of the WI-FI and that’s basically it.

Katie: Yeah. Well, I’ve seen that, just, you know, correlation like people who tend to dwell on like all the bad things that are gonna happen tend to like actually have those things happen more often, whether that’s, you know, as a direct result or just because they’re kind of like…it’s just an interesting thought. Like we create a lot of the stress potentially ourselves.

Harry: Probably all.
Katie: Yea, probably. That’s true.
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Katie: So I’d love to go back to kind of explaining how like…so you have the miHealth device that might help and also these infoceuticals products. I’m gonna get that right eventually. But basically, how are these related to then…like you guys have seen all kinds of amazing transformations in people through using these. So how are you guys taking results with these things like autoimmunity and chronic disease and immune signaling? Basically, what’s the mechanism there? It’s so fascinating to me now that I’m starting to understand it.

Harry: Yeah. A lot of it is in that mechanism that we were talking about and the sense of that emotional immunity. You know, what we’re trying to do is basically correct the distortions of the body feel so that the body’s own healing system is able to activate. And as I say it’s not necessarily our products that are doing it per se. For example, so you mentioned miHealth device. The miHealth device is localized PMF device that we put information and onto the signal. So if in the scan we can see there’s like an energy blockage, like around your kidney or around your knee, we can basically use that device to help unblock the energy channel there. And what we find is that as you unblock the energy in the body field in those different local regions, at some point, you know, it’s normally fairly rapid, is the energy field becomes efficient enough that it basically activates its own innate healing system. And then the body does the rest.

I think about 18 months ago we surpassed like a million clients going through the system. I mean, it’s so repeated like 14 years and we have a few thousand practitioners that, you know, see bunches of people every day. So that’s over a long period, but the amounts of reports we’ve got are pretty amazing. But what’s really exciting for us now is because we now have everything in the cloud, we’re basically able to collect the totality of all the data. So we can basically collect everyone’s scans and then we also have a short questionnaire so they’re telling us what’s happening with their fatigue, their pain, their overall wellness. Yes, out of the 44,000 scans that we did in the last 18 months, on average we’ve seen 162% increase in their wellness score, which is basically incredible.

Katie: That is. And I was talking, I was just training at your headquarters and talking to some of your practitioners and just the stories they have from their own work with their clients is amazing. And even things that I think so many of us assume are set in stone, like thyroid disease, many people assume that’s like a lifelong diagnosis. And I know mine has been getting better. I’m using a lot of things including now…I’m using NES to help address that. But that was fascinating to me to realize that like in a way like when you were able to address it on that level that, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re gonna have this problem for the rest of your life. And that was obviously your experience with chronic fatigue which is also to some people a lifetime diagnosis, and that’s really amazing.

Harry: Yeah. I mean, I would say to people, you know, it was one of the reason we made the film “The Living Matrix” is because, yeah, well, in that film we basically showed someone with cerebral palsy who was able to get their life back. There was probably two people with cancer who were healed. And then there was a couple of people with chronic fatigue syndrome. And we just made that film just to show how bioenergetics techniques can basically get people’s health back. And it really isn’t what you think. I mean, unfortunately, we’re so programmed in society where you have a disease and, yeah, that isn’t exactly like thyroid or chronic fatigue where it’s meant to be no cure or cancer no cure. I mean, there’s just gazillions of people who have been able to take control of their own health and get their health back.

And I would say in pretty much any condition, you know, I was a very, very severe case. Well, I was 12 stones and I dropped down to 8 stone. I was years in bed. Like obviously a bit embarrassing but I couldn’t get an erection and barely eat and all the stuff. And, you know, I was able to get back out of that situation. And I know countless other people who’ve had similarly amazing transformations.

Katie: That’s so fascinating. And I can speak at least to my own personal experience which is…because you mentioned the things like scar tissue can like sort of damage the body field in a way like the physical trauma of that. And when I first got scanned it was like it identified places everywhere in my body that had been scarred. Like for instance, the injury, C-Section scar, my tonsils had been out, which was also ironically where my thyroid was, roughly in the same area. And I just thought that was really fascinating because you had made that connection as far as the scar tissue. So how do you feel like this technology interacts then with modern medicine and functional medicine and nutrition? Because I know like you said they’re all valid in how they do interact with the body. I’m curious like how do you see bioenergetics and energy medicine working with those systems or how they can be integrated?

Harry: What I’d like to see over the long term is basically the ideas of bioenergetics, I guess get built more into the functional medicine community. I mean, what I’d really like to see with bioenergetics and how that integrates in with functional medicine and like I guess normal traditional medicine, I mean, it is such a revolutionary paradigm or way of looking at the body because, you know, ultimately what we’re concerned with is, well, “How is the control system of the body really working? Like how does healing actually happen and what are the root causes?” You know, just like we were talking about that concept of emotional immunity. Well, the fact that you might have emotional spheres working with brain and then that’s distorting to different parts of the body.

And then just the fact that even like viruses and bacteria like that whole immune system of creating antibodies is there to heal people. And if you look at Western medicine, for instance, I mean, it’s pretty fascinating. Like I think before the ’80s and if you had high antibodies that was the immune system activating. And then the whole AIDS epidemic came in. And then if you had a high T count it seemed like you’ve got AIDS and suddenly your immune system is sort of battled, you know, malfunctioning. And all of that stuff is really completely back to front and upside down and very, very confusing. And, you know, what I hope that bioenergetics will be able to do because we’re collecting so much data on, you know, what’s actually happening both in the scan and peoples’ outcomes from doing these types of techniques is to be able to take these ideas and then I guess like educate into the functional medicine community so that they’re not just thinking from a biochemistry point of view.

Because ultimately, functional medicine, I mean, I think it’s a massive, massive improvement on normal Western medicine and a big pharma but fundamentally, it’s still based on biochemistry and they’re not really thinking from a…they’re definitely not thinking from a physics point of view, you know, and they’re definitely not thinking sort of from a…and there’s a lot of really ancient wisdom from Chinese medicine that we’re trying to modernize with bioenergetics. You know, I think if we can fuse those ideas into the sort of functional medicine community, then that would be a good thing. But it’d probably take us a few years.

Katie: Yeah, that’s been an interesting mental shift for me personally because I feel like it’s easy to think of the body as like, obviously, a biological components of the body. That makes sense. Everybody studied that in high school. And even like biochemical, that makes sense. But to like apply the idea of physics to the body takes a little bit more like understanding, and that’s what’s been so fascinating for me to try to learn about that.

Harry: Yeah. I mean, it’s basically going down to the fundamental principles. And, you know, I think to me that’s what’s just gone wrong in Western medicine and even functional medicine to a point is like, you know, you’re just looking at test, high antibodies. “Well, let’s get the antibodies down. And it got this far so let’s suppress it. Or this toxin, let’s remove this toxin.” Like that’s all very, very like problem. Let’s get rid of that problem. They’re not thinking of it, I guess, in this sequenced way of how everything relates to everything else because, you know, all of these things are just small cogs or parts in an overall journey of health. And I think that’s really what bioenergetics can help to answer, is it can basically help to identify really what these root causes and what these longer sort of roots or pathways in the body are.

And if we can help to solve the root cause and then help the sort of I guess the body’s own natural healing mechanism. Like if we can enhance…I think what we’re really talking about is the placebo effect. I mean, this is the big question, “Why does every doctor get asked the placebo effect? “Oh, let’s get rid of the placebo effect.” Like it’s the most stupid thing on the planet. If instead we had billions of dollars studying the placebo effect, like this is really the question we’re asking like in our own research. Like, “Well, how can we get the placebo effect to work reliably and accurately every time?” Like if we could solve the placebo effect, everyone would just get better, right?

But that isn’t what is happening in Western medicine or in functional medicine. Like everyone is convinced that biochemistry is the answer. Biochemistry is not the answer to activate the body’s healing system. And nature does things incredibly, efficiently and incredibly well. I think the more that we can understand about fundamentally how nature heals, you know, we’d be in a lot, lot better place. I mean, that’s what really what we’re trying to do in our company. Just keep studying and researching that. And, you know, hopefully, we’re now educating people with what find out.

Katie: That’s a super fascinating point because I’ve done some reading on the placebo effect. And it blows my mind even things like when they do surgeries, that are placebo surgeries, they’re just making an incision, but the person thinks that they had the surgery and then their ACL gets better. Like science doesn’t explain that, but they write that off. But then so why are not trying to figure out how they got better? It’s basically what you’re saying, like why are we not trying to figure out why that work and figure out how to do that?

Harry: Yeah. The whole of research and drug research is like their whole basis is like cut the placebo effect out. Like they just hate the placebo effect because it gets in the way of drug profits or supplement profits. I mean, it’s just the opposite. Like that’s the bit we should be looking at. It’s like if people are looking at this, then you should probably look the other way of that. Unfortunately, it seems to be the way.

Katie: Yeah. Well, I think it’s a valuable model right now because I always hear it said, especially at conferences, that the medical system is broken. And I’ve heard it also said, and this my opinion as well that the medical system is not broken, it’s absolutely brilliant at what it was designed to do, which was treat infectious disease and trauma, like physical trauma, like acute trauma. And I would say it’s still actually good at that. If you’re in a car accident and you have a broken bone or you’re bleeding, go to a hospital.

Harry: That way you’ve put the nail on the head. Like the Western system is not about studying and encouraging and helping healing. But that’s okay. Like we can give that a go in bioenergetics.

Katie: Exactly. Because, yeah, I think they’re trying to apply the stiches of band-aid model to chronic disease. But the problem is chronic disease, unlike an acute illness, it’s not like a singular problem your body is responding to. It’s not like a knee injury that has to be healed. It’s an underlying disruption in the body itself. And we’re trying to like treat as a singular thing you’re kinda missing. Or maybe like throwing other things out of balance. Actually, I’ve seen that in medicine. If you’re trying to like treat one specific condition as a singular cause, you actually end up throwing other things out of balance because you just treated that one thing. So I think that’s a really interesting point and hopefully maybe a part of the answer to the chronic disease problem that we see statistically on the rise in the U.S. right now at least.

Harry: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s just try and activate everyone’s healing systems.

Katie: Yeah. And it is one of those things too. It’s a totally different approach. So like I said, just having talked to your practitioners here, I’m absolutely blown away by the results that they’re seeing. So I’m fascinated to keep learning more. We’ll have links to…I know you mentioned one of your movies, but can you talk about some of the others as well and we’ll have links to those in the show notes for people who wanna find them?

Harry: Sure. Yeah. So the movie we mentioned was “The Living Matrix” which is thelivingmatrixmovie.com. Our last movie was called “SuperCharged” which is superchargedmovie.com which is basically all about how you can increase your energy. And then we also made a movie for like people in emotional crisis which is called “Choice Point” at choicepointmovie.com

Katie: Perfect. And all those links will be there as well. I believe you also have a book coming out soon, right?

Harry: Oh, I do. Yeah. I’ve got to get on it, right? Haven’t I? But, yeah, the book is called “Energy for Life” which I think should be around in like April or May.

Katie: Okay. And what inspired that one? Just kind of the understanding of the body field as a whole?

Harry: Yeah. I think the last book that we published was the “Choice Point” book like six years ago. And, yeah, I mean just our ideas have developed a lot since then. And so basically, I just wanna put all our latest thinking down in book.

Katie: Okay. And then lastly, I know we probably gonna get this question. I wanna make sure we answer is, if people are listening and thinking like they wanna know what’s going on with them and understand like body fields and bioenergetics and use this device like I use it and my daughter use it and you’ve used, how can they do that? How can they find out more about NES and how it works?

Harry: Yeah, if people wanna have their body field scanned, really the best thing to do is either visit a practitioner in person or if you’d like you can also just see a practitioner remotely and, yeah, the best way of doing that is just go to our website which is neshealth.com

Katie: Awesome. And to wrap up, I’d love to hear how you answer like the critics. I always kind of like to ask that question, especially if I feel like it’s a more cutting-edge type interview and maybe something that a lot of people aren’t familiar with. I’m sure that there are critics. So what do you say to people who think maybe that this is like, “Woo, I know that’s a word that gets turned around a lot”? But like what do you say to those people?

Harry: I have to say do the research. I think most of these things always just comes out of ignorance. And I think, to be honest, you know, when I was 20-21, I was completely ignorant of all of these because I was just traditionally educated in largely just economics, physics, and math at the time. And, you know, I totally trusted doctors and so, you know, like my first look was looking at biochemistry and say, “Yeah, that’s just natural,” but I’d say do the research. Like read all books. Read a load of other people’s books and sites. And if you actually spend the time looking into the material, I’m pretty sure your mind will get changed.

Katie: Yeah. And I’ll make sure we have links like I mentioned to all those and to the main website as well because there’s some articles and research there so other people can start and kind of dive in. But, Harry, thank you so much for being here, for taking the time. I know how busy you are. Running a company is not an easy job and I really appreciate that you took the time to be here.

Harry: It was really great interview. Thank you.

Katie: Thank you. And thanks to all of you for listening, and I’ll see you next time.

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